In this episode of Audio Signals, host Marco Ciappelli sits down with Frank Saverio / Zafiro / Scalise to explore the evolution of his writing career.
Guest: Frank Scalise
Website | https://franksaverio.com
Website | https://frankscalise.com
Website | https://frankzafiro.com
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Host: Marco Ciappelli, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine [@ITSPmagazine] and Host of Redefining Society Podcast & Audio Signals Podcast
Website: https://www.marcociappelli.com
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Episode Title: 🎙️✨ Shifting Realities: Crime, Sci-Fi, and the Art of Storytelling with Frank Scalise
Guest: Frank Scalise
Short Intro: In this episode of Audio Signals, host Marco Ciappelli sits down with Frank Saverio / Zafiro / Scalise to explore the evolution of his writing career.
Show Notes:
🎙️✨ Shifting Realities: Crime, Sci-Fi, and the Art of Storytelling with Frank Saverio
📚 From crime-ridden streets to the vast unknown of space, author Frank Scalise (a.k.a. Frank Zafiro a.k.a. Frank Saverio) is no stranger to weaving gripping tales across multiple genres. With a background in law enforcement, he first made his mark writing gritty crime fiction before diving into the speculative realms of sci-fi and fantasy. But what drives a storyteller to switch between such different worlds?
In this episode of Audio Signals, host Marco Ciappelli sits down with Frank to explore the evolution of his writing career. They discuss the importance of keeping reader expectations clear (hence the multiple pen names), the unexpected parallels between crime fiction and sci-fi, and how storytelling serves as a powerful lens to examine society, human nature, and even our own mortality.
🚀 Frank’s latest sci-fi novel, Kemper’s House, is a thought-provoking exploration of space travel, time dilation, and the unsettling feeling of being a "man out of time." Inspired by both historical cycles and the rapid acceleration of technology, the book raises deep philosophical questions about progress, cultural shifts, and what it truly means to belong. In a distant future where humanity has finally unlocked the ability to travel at 87% the speed of light, an interstellar crew embarks on a deep-space mission after intercepting mysterious radio signals from a distant civilization. Captain Adrian Kemper leads the expedition to the Chiron system, but what they find is far different from what they imagined. By the time they arrive, nearly 1,000 years have passed on the distant planet, and civilization has either evolved or vanished entirely. But the real challenge comes when they return to Earth—another 1,500 years later.
🎸 Beyond writing, Frank also shares his passion for music—despite self-proclaimed struggles with guitar and rhythm. Whether it's crafting a novel, strumming a few chords, or reflecting on the changing world around him, one thing remains clear: storytelling is at the heart of it all.
📌 Join us on this conversation to uncover how Frank balances multiple creative identities, why genre-hopping makes for richer storytelling, and what’s next on his ever-expanding horizon.
📌 Discover more storytellers on Audio Signals: https://www.itspmagazine.com/audio-signals
Watch the video version on-demand on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnYu0psdcllQvnJ8eHUlVX8AuyhehtexA
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Resources
Kemper's House Kindle Edition
https://www.amazon.com/Kempers-House-Frank-Saverio-ebook/dp/B0CWGC6QGL
by Frank Saverio (Author) Format: Kindle Edition
What if the cost of first contact was leaving behind a world you’d never recognize upon return?
On the heels of discovering interstellar travel, humanity has stumbled upon the first signs of intelligent life in another system. Captain Adrian Kemper is selected to lead the expedition to Kyra-2B in order to make first contact with the Kyrans. He departs a world struggling to deal with overpopulation, knowing that the realities of space travel will mean the Earth he eventually returns to will no longer be home. Even the stone cottage he loves may not remain.
Despite this, Kemper accepts the mission. He leads an elite crew of optimistic scientists on a journey that will traverse hundreds of light years before reaching an alien world.
What they find is truly unexpected.
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For more podcast stories from Audio Signals:
https://www.itspmagazine.com/audio-signals
Watch the video version on-demand on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnYu0psdcllQvnJ8eHUlVX8AuyhehtexA
Are you interested in advertising your brand on ITSPmagazine?
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Marco Ciappelli: [00:00:00] Well, hello, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of, uh, audio signals podcast, where we talk about storytelling and, uh, stories and also, and especially storytellers, because, uh, those are my guests. They can be people that write books, people that play music, write song. I mean, for me, even photography tells a story, obviously.
So, um, often we talk with writers because those are the ones that really write down the story in a, in a traditional format. Let's say, um, We can argue that, uh, in terms of paintings and, uh, and music as well. And, uh, I said, I read something about my guest that is struggling with guitars or something like that.
We'll, we'll get into that. Maybe. Um, I struggle with bass and guitar and piano myself. Um, but. Enough about this. I don't have enough voice. So I need to spare it today. Um, i'm [00:01:00] gonna introduce Frank Saverio and he goes by other Franks and he's gonna explain us why so frank welcome to the show
Frank Saverio: Well, thanks Marco. I appreciate it. Uh, happy to be here. Yeah, I go by Frank Saverio when I write science fiction and fantasy. Um, but probably most of my books are written under Frank Zafiro, which, uh, is my pen name for crime fiction. I'd say probably three quarters of my books are in that, uh, major genre with a bunch of minor genres, uh, the subgenres in there, you know, police procedurals, detective novels, uh, hardboiled noir, the, the different subcategories of crime fiction.
And then my, uh, my actual name is Frank Scalise. It's gotta use it. Um, and, and, you know, I kind of saved that for like everything else. Like I've written a couple of nonfiction books in, uh, in the, uh, concerned with, uh, the law enforcement realm [00:02:00] and then, uh, uh, some books about hockey and some children's books and a couple of, uh, well, one heartwarming humor, sort of drama, dramedy, uh, and another one of the works there too.
So, uh, try to keep the. Names, you know, for the very, very different genres from each other. So nobody picks up a book expecting one thing and getting quite another.
Marco Ciappelli: You know that that could be an old conversation on my opinion on how So some people expect, and I've talked about this before, some people expect that when you are in a genre, when you have a character, which often happen when you write, um, mystery or detective crime, and, and usually there is one character that you bring, um, over and you write many, many books about that, and then, and then if, if somebody just come up and, I Rowling, she had to get a pen name to write something different than Harry Potter.
I'm like, why do you think that that's [00:03:00] important? Obviously, you must think that's important because you've done it, so.
Frank Saverio: Yeah. I mean, I think there's an unspoken contract between readers and writers that, you know, here, here, here's. In general, what you're going to get, you know, you obviously people like to be surprised, so they don't want to, they don't want to know the whole package up front, but they want to know they're getting a private detective mystery, or they want to know they're getting a police procedural with an ensemble cast, or they want to know they're getting a science fiction novel.
Um, you know, they don't want to. Pick up a book expecting a cozy where a grandmother with a cat for a sidekick, you know, yarns her way to solving the mystery and get LA confidential, you know, or, or something like that. Um, and so I, I think there's, there's a little bit of a. of an agreement there that let's, let's not surprise you too much.
Let's keep the surprises within the guardrails. Um, and so I just think it's, it's from a, from an author [00:04:00] standpoint, it's, it's kind of good business because people only write reviews usually for two reasons. One, because they love the book and the one because they hated it. And, and if you, if that person picks up your, your gritty, you know, expletive filled, violent, sexually charged crime novel expecting, uh, you know, murder she wrote, uh, or, or, you know, something like that, they're, they're obviously going to be upset and, and the reverse is also true.
And, and so it'll just lead to people being unhappy and you don't want unhappy readers. So, uh, I think it's just, just a clear demarcation is there that's there is a, is a good idea.
Marco Ciappelli: Yeah, no, it makes, it makes total sense as long as you're clear, right? With the, with the writer, uh, and they may say, Hey, this guy wrote something else. Might be main thirsty, but knowing where you're going, obviously you wrote some kids stories, so you don't want to mix the hard boil with that.
Frank Saverio: No.
Marco Ciappelli: Um, [00:05:00] all right.
So talking about crime, um, I know that your background is, was, uh, as an officer. And the police force and, uh, so it's hard to find, um, especially, I don't know, on my show, which is not the main, um, storytellers and writers, uh, podcast, I guess, but hopefully we'll get there, um, people that turn into writing after, you know, people that turn You know, they've done with their career.
I've talked to former fighter jet pilots. I've talked to neurosurgeon, brain surgeon. I've talked to a lot of people that then, well, all of a sudden, well, not all of a sudden, they usually have it in within them, the whole career that they have. And then they finally, you know, they're like, all right, now I got time to write.
And they are fantastic. And so a little bit of your stories. And when did you know you? You want it right, eventually.[00:06:00]
Frank Saverio: was pretty sure about it by the time I was 10. So, so I, I've been a writer my whole life. Um, you know, I, I, I didn't really start having anything published until I was in my late teens, early twenties, and then pretty, pretty sparingly. Um, I wasn't until 2006 that my first novel was published. And so for me, the.
The crime career that the policing career, um, you know, and, and stuff I did before and after, you know, was one part of my life, but being a writer is just always something I was like somebody who, um, you know, is always a musician, but maybe they work at a bar, they architect or whatever, you know, they do, they have another career, but they're also a musician and maybe they play on the weekends.
They do a little recording, whatever. Um, yeah. And so they've always known they were, you know, since they picked up a guitar at five or something like that. And that's kind of how it was, was for me. Um, I did [00:07:00] have a period of time where I really wasn't writing much that wasn't related to, uh, my job, uh, or I was also going to school full time getting my history degree.
And so I was doing a lot of reading and writing of, of historical, you know, uh, About the books that, you know, history papers, basically. And so, you know, from about 96 to 2004, I really only wrote technical things like that, school papers and, and, and police reports and so forth. And then things kind of settled down a little bit.
I'd finished my degree. I was kind of in a position that I was going to stay at for two or three years. And I was like, wow, I can get back to fiction. And of course, you know, uh, artists tend to be reflections of the things that they're around, and that was around a lot of police related stuff, and so crime fiction was what came out when, when that occurred, so I started writing a lot of crime fiction, [00:08:00] uh, I would still say the majority of what I've written has been, has been, Crime fiction in one subgenre or another.
Uh, so for me, it was just something I knew I was going to do my whole life. And, and, and it was just a matter of how, how seriously am I just, you know, doing it for fun? Am I maybe doing it as a light hobby or am I doing it as a full time gig? And, you know, after I retired, um, from the, from the police department, I was a captain when I retired.
Um. I actually taught police leadership for for a number of years. I still do. And so I'm not fully, I guess I'm semi retired. Um, but I was able to take a much more active approach to to writing and publishing. And so my output has been, it's grown considerably. I mean, I, I think when I retired, I had about seven or I think I had maybe seven or eight books at the time I retired, if that, maybe less, uh, I think, yeah, seven or eight.
I was pretty good guess and I'm over [00:09:00] 50 now. And so, um, really, you know, able to, to pick up the pace a little bit when you're not working a full time job or this, or this becomes a part time job for you.
Marco Ciappelli: Oh, you don't know how many times I said, well, now I'm going to write for my fun and then end up writing stuff for work. But, um, so you, you kind of answered my second question already, but I want to get a little bit more deep into that. So the first one was, you know, when you started, when you knew you wanted to, to, to be a writer, the other one, you said pretty much right about what you know, most of the time.
So you are. In the, in the police and in that kind of environment and that's, that's what you wrote about. Um, but then you mentioned you wrote a thing about kids and, and I think one of your latest thing is sci fi. So how, I mean, I, it's easy to understand right about what you know, but you know, then you do research and, and, and of course I think it's, it's, it's a good, I'm not going to say it's [00:10:00] easy, but it is.
Um, easier, right? When, when you know something that when you write about something else, you either just make up an entire fantasy world, which still require research anyway. Um, so how do you decide eventually to move from that genre that you're comfortable with, with something else? Is this something that click in your head that you get fascinated by reading another book, watching a movie and say, Hey, I could do something like that.
What's the, what's the process there? Yeah.
Frank Saverio: a couple of things. I mean, I grew up on science fiction and fantasy. Those were probably my first love. I read a ton of fantasy and science fiction when I, when I was growing up. In fact, the science fiction book that I just published, uh, I actually dedicated it to a writer that I admired as a kid, um, because I was inspired by that, that author and, and remained so as an adult.
And so, um, it's always been in my heart there, [00:11:00] you know, but, uh, you know, when you say write what you know, definitely I knew law enforcement and because I was experiencing it a lot. You know, those were the, the ideas that were cropping up and the stories that wanted to be told. They all tended to have a law enforcement, uh, or crime anyway, um, sort of backdrop.
Um, but you know, I wrote 40 books or so in that genre and. I, I, I won't say I've ever gotten bored with any of the series that I've worked on. I mean, some of them have ended, so I don't know if I eventually would have gotten bored with them. I don't know, but some of them are finished. And so, and I was never bored with them.
And I'm, I mean, I just released the 15th book in my flagship series, the River City series. Um. I secret released it on my direct buy store. So it's coming out in December 3rd and I'm not bored at all with that series. I'm excited to go back every time I go back. So it wasn't that necessarily, but it was that love of, you know, science fiction and fantasy from being a kid, uh, from really enjoying, [00:12:00] uh, some that I've read some, some excellent, uh, Films and TV series in that genre and and really, to me, crime fiction and science fiction are actually more closely related than some other genres because both of them really provide you the opportunity to tell a story on the surface that, you know, has some complexity and action and nuance of character and And can be enjoyed just for what it is, but you can also, uh, examine, you know, things under the surface a little bit, a little, little social examination or social commentary or explore the human condition a little bit on a deeper level.
And any book will let you do that. Uh, certainly crime fiction and science fiction don't, don't have the market cornered, but the difference between the two, and it's, and it's especially true with science fiction, I think, is that. You kind of can come under the reader's defenses a little bit, like especially with science fiction, because, um, you know, they're, ah, that's a made up story on a made up [00:13:00] planet, you know, and so they just accept it.
And so they're not like resistive to the exploration of a couple of ideas, uh, that you might get into about, you know, whatever social condition or human condition you want to explore. Uh, they just, you know, it's almost like a backdoor into the psyche a little bit for, for the reader. Uh, And, and I mean that in a positive way, not in a, uh, you know, brainwashing sort of way.
Marco Ciappelli: No, no, no. I understand what you mean. I mean, I, I, I was listening to some interview with some, you know, very, uh, very well known, um, sci fi writers and they kind of pick, uh, some important social theme. I mean, you're building a new world and you, you have that kind of like God like power to. To make message and to highlight things that are not earthy, for example, I mean, it could be sci fi related to not necessarily another planet, but you know, I don't know, a city underneath, [00:14:00] uh, whatever, another dimension.
But I think that you have that opportunity to build the world the way you see it. So I, I think it's very philosophical. I mean, look at, I mean, uh, you know, the whole iRobot series from Asimov. And now we talk about artificial intelligence and that was in the 1950s.
Frank Saverio: Yeah, or look, or
Marco Ciappelli: look at that, right?
Frank Saverio: yeah, absolutely. You look at a novel like Doom, which is another classic and, and the layers that exist there. And you can read a book like that and strictly enjoy the political intrigue and the action and the tension.
Marco Ciappelli: No,
Frank Saverio: you. You know, you can also explore the ecological, the, the, the, these, the, the religious implications, the, you know, I mean, there's so many different layers.
And so, uh, I just, I think science fiction sometimes, uh, it, it just, the reader is not necessarily as on guard as they might be in, in, in other genres, uh, and then crime offers that. For a different reason, crime just offers it [00:15:00] because, uh, you know, where, where crime is happening, usually there are social factors taking place or very strong human factors.
In other words, maybe greed or revenge, you know, those are very strong human factors, or you could be looking at somebody who's turned to the life of crime due to poverty or to abuse, uh, because they were abused or, I mean, you know, pick your angle that you want to explore. It's there and it's plausible and people are going to be pretty accepting of it, I think.
Um, and so then you get a message maybe that, that lands on a couple of different levels. And I think that's, that's what great art does. Like there's a lot of art out there and people can look at, listen to, read, watch so many different things. And they do. And, and a lot of it I think just passes over us and we either enjoy it in the moment or we don't and we might not even remember if we read it or saw it five years from now.
Like we might have to think about it to try to remember, did I, have [00:16:00] we watched this series yet? Or whatever. Great art, like. sticks, you know, it resonates, it remains, it becomes almost, it almost becomes part of the, the person taking it in and, and, and it becomes their own. And when that happens, that art piece, whatever it is, a book, a story, a painting, a TV show, a movie, whatever, um, You know, it's, it's unique in that person's experience so that it exists in a very unique way that's very different for the next person who might have, uh, you know, different reason for, for having a resonate with them.
So, um, so I think if you want that to happen as an artist, you know, you, you kind of have to shoot for those deeper. Connections and maybe you miss, maybe you miss with some people, maybe you land with others. Um, but, uh, if you don't want to be just kind of the popcorn entertainment, which, you know, people make a great living doing that and, and there's nothing wrong with a, [00:17:00] a good, you know, good romp of that nature.
Uh, sometimes it has its place, uh, for sure. Um, but I, I've always kind of been interested in trying to like. make that deeper connection. And so, um, I found science fiction and crime fiction are two very good genres for, for, for making that attempt.
Marco Ciappelli: well, you know, you talk about music. I can go there. You can write a
Frank Saverio: Mm
Marco Ciappelli: with four chords that just flip around and they're just made to sell and catchy, but I'm not gonna. Go and compare that with Rush or, you know, or Pink Floyd or anybody else, I mean, or even not just going back to my kind of music because I'm older, but even, you know, great artists that you can, you can find today.
Um, maybe we'll talk a bit about music later, but I want to know about your, your, your sci fi story. What, what is that about?
Frank Saverio: it's called Kemper's house, actually.
Marco Ciappelli: There you go. [00:18:00] Perfect. There is a space shuttle there.
Frank Saverio: Yeah, it's it's a set at an indeterminate future on earth. Kind of leave it a little bit loose, uh, open to interpretation, but certainly a while. Um, and, and we have discovered the technology to be able to travel at 0. 87 of light speed. And so this is a pretty big deal because now we can actually.
conceivably reach, uh, you know, other, other star systems, other, other solar systems. Um, and around the same time that, that this occurs and the debate about where should we go, what should we with this new technology? Uh, we intercept. Some, uh, radio waves from another civilization. So much like the early 1930s and 1940s when we started pumping radio waves out into space, you know, that that sort of, of, of, uh, communication, not a direct [00:19:00] one.
And so it becomes the first, initially a first contact, uh, novel. Adrian Kemper, he is the captain of the expedition that goes to this, uh, uh, system, the Chiron system, the Chira 2B, which is the source of these signals and, uh, to, to see what there is to be seen and I was fascinated by the realities, uh, the, the, the physics, the physics of the entire thing.
I mean, if you receive, If you're 300 light years away from a planet, when you receive those radio waves, you know, 300 years have already passed on that planet, and then it gets weirder when you get into a spaceship and start flying at 87, uh, C, you know, uh, to that destination because time passes differently for you on the ship, um, than it does for the people that are stationary, uh, To your point of view on the, on the earth and on, on your destination planet.
And [00:20:00] so by the time they get to the Chiron system, uh, you know, something, uh, you know, like close to a thousand years has passed since those initial, um, radio waves went out. So imagine, you know, 2940 here on earth would be, you know, the earliest that. The reverse can happen to us. What would our planet look like?
And so that's what they encountered. And I don't want to give any spoilers. So that's, that's where I'll stop on that piece of it. But, uh, but they do, they do encounter Chirons. Uh, they do have an adventure there and they do eventually return. And that's the other thing is, uh, and really it was the, the initial catalyst for the story was my, my question of what would it be like for someone to You know, leave this planet, go on a, on a space adventure like that, come back and have it be, uh, uh, you know, 1500 years later, [00:21:00] you know, so I mean, leave, leave just as the Western Roman empire has fallen and come back in the year 2000, I mean, that would be some, some system shocks and culture shocks and, uh, serious, uh, changes.
And so, um, Yeah. I started playing with, well, what, what could those changes be and what could happen? And, and, and is, uh, is civilization always on a linear path upward, or do we have regression that occurs and, and what could cause that? And, and, you know, that's the thing about science fiction is it usually comes from a whole lot of, you know, why would, or what if sort of questions or how would.
Sort of questions. And then you said about, you know, kind of trying to answer those. Um, and so, I mean, it's a short novel. It's only about 40, 000, 45, 000 words. So it's barely a novel by definition. Um, but there's a whole lot of concepts packed into packed into that
Marco Ciappelli: [00:22:00] Well, I could have a series of podcasts just about that talking about the society and technology I mean you said you talk about Comparing the thousand year with our thousand year But if you compare a thousand year from now, which I think that's what you did with technology that changed so much faster I mean we've changed much more in the past A hundred years than in the past a thousand years.
So imagine that exponentially going and I think that's where you're going. And that's, I agree. It's a beauty of sci fi. If done right, um, it's a philosophical reflection.
Frank Saverio: Well, yeah, and, and I'll tell you, I mean, I'll, I'll, I'll dispense with a dirty little secret that I wasn't sure if I should share with people or not, but I, I figure what the heck, you know, uh, uh, honesty is usually appreciated. You know, I'm, I'm 56, uh, uh, I was 55 when I started writing this, but I'm 56 years old and I'm, I'm reaching that point in life where two things are [00:23:00] happening.
One is you are starting to actually like mortality. The realization of it has landed like you don't staring it in the eyes, but you could you could see there's less road ahead than behind, you know.
Marco Ciappelli: you can smell it. I'm there. I'm with you.
Frank Saverio: Yeah. So that, that has a certain impact on you. And then, you know, uh, my generation is, uh, and, and, and, and, and I'm guessing you're somewhat in the same age bracket, you
Marco Ciappelli: Pretty much right. The same.
Frank Saverio: gen Xers.
Right. I mean, our generation has graduated from like the boomers are in charge, but we're getting there too. We're in charge too. Now the millennials are starting to. Take over like, and we're starting to be the older people, you know, not the elderly, but the older and, and, and so the world's changing and, and attitudes, uh, what, what were accepted attitudes or what were, were social norms are, are shifting, uh, [00:24:00] in response to that.
And it's unnerving in a, in a, in an odd sort of way, but in a very, uh, pervasive way, it's like constant and. Uh, and you sometimes are surprised by just odd things that like this is the way it's always been or the way I always thought people thought about something and then I find out that no, my view on this is antiquated and I don't even mean the hot button issues out there that people get upset about.
I mean, even at a more basic level, just, you know, uh, Uh, the day to day life of how things should be done or how, what, what's, what's kind and what's cruel and what's a good response is that's like the rules of the game are changing ever so slightly and underneath our feet, you know, and. And I was a little unnerving and I, and so I was starting to feel, uh, when I started noticing it, then just like when you buy a new car, suddenly everybody went out and bought the same car at the same time.
Cause we're a bunch of copycats, right? Once you start [00:25:00] noticing it, then you really notice it. And so boom, it hits you like a ton of bricks briefly. And that was about. With the time I, I was beginning to work on this. And so this idea of being a man out of time, I mean, Kemper goes away and he comes back and it's, it's, you know, 15, 14, 1500 years later on earth and the changes have been radical.
Uh, you know, no, again, no spoilers, but, but radical and, and he is, is, is a man out of time. And even, you know, the, the name of the book is called Kemper's house and, you know, he has a stone cottage in Ireland that he, he, he arranges to have a stewardship of while he's gone. And, and, you know, and, and it's still there when he comes back, um, the, the stone house is still there, but, uh, Even though it's still there, everything has changed, you know, and so it's how it was almost a, it was almost a coping mechanism for me to write that part of the book, that [00:26:00] piece of it to,
Marco Ciappelli: I, I, I find that really fascinating actually. I mean, I'm, I'm interested in reading the book cause I, I feel like it's, um, it's the kind of question I ask myself again. Yeah. I was born in 1969, so I'm pretty much, I'm pretty sure that's around me. Exactly. They run the number. Um, we, we run through the, from the analog technology to, we are that generation to the digital.
Some people miss the train. Well, well, sorry for them, or maybe it's easier. I don't know. Um, somehow they stayed on it. Um, And, and we can, we can compare, and the new generation, they don't compare, they're like digital natives, and that's a different story. So I think it's fascinating, I think we need this kind of reflection, and look at the history, and look at the future, and make, make scenarios, because we can't just go blind into, into it.
Frank Saverio: There's [00:27:00] another.
Marco Ciappelli: you to do that, right?
Frank Saverio: yeah, yeah. And, and, you know, my other passion is history. I,
Marco Ciappelli: Yeah, you mentioned
Frank Saverio: is in history and, and I, you know, I was fascinated too by the question of. Uh, of yeah, I mean, for lack of a better term ownership of a place, I mean, if, and I was thinking in particular of British history, just because I, I was reading about Roman Britain and I, before that I was enjoying the Saxon chronicles that, uh, uh, Bernard Cornwell wrote, uh, the last kingdom, you know, series is what he calls it now.
And this idea that, you know, the Britons lived in, in, in, in, you know, on that island and then, you know, the Romans showed up. And so for a long time, the Romans definitely, they owned that land, like they were in control of it and they built it up and they did all these, but they left, you know, they left. And, uh, and so then the, the, the, the, the ones who were left behind had it for a little [00:28:00] while.
And then the Saxons came in. And then they had it for a while, but then the Vikings came in and then they had it for a while, but then the Saxons pushed back. And so then they had it for a while and then the Normans invaded. And I mean, but all of that happened in a period of like 1100 years or, you know, or something, you know, um, like that and, uh, 1200 years.
And so each of those stages, like generations and generations, maybe, you know, five, six, eight generations sometimes of a people. And it was their land. It's where they grew up. It's, you know, and so at what point, you know, are you no longer the invaders and the usurpers and the conquerors? At what point do you become the natives?
And yet there's a whole other people that still have a claim. And then, you know, Here comes new people pushing in and, and, and wanting it. And so that dynamic and the, the idea of, of, of, you know, [00:29:00] changing, uh, how the culture is affected by it. And, and, and those folks left behind too, like when the Romans left, I mean, that, that was a mixed culture for sure that was left behind and some held to the, to the very, uh, uh, you know, to the, To the, to the Latin ways and then, and some used as an opportunity to return to the old ways.
And, uh, you know, it's just, it's, it's fascinating to explore what happened in history in a different, you know, like almost recreate it and then run it again in a different, you know, sci sci fi setting, uh, to see, to see what happens. And you don't always control it. Sometimes you get surprised,
Marco Ciappelli: Absolutely. I mean, there is a story of like, well, how the, the Roman colonies then, uh, on a certain point, the, the one that were submitted, they, they took a spot in the Senate as Romans, but they were not originally Romans. I mean, who are ultimately the originally Romans, right?
Frank Saverio: Uh, yeah, I mean, there was a time where if you weren't from literally the city of [00:30:00] Rome, you weren't Roman. And then slowly it became all of, uh, of Italia that was Roman. And then,
Marco Ciappelli: Yeah, and, and that applies to a lot of things south of, I mean, Italy itself, we've been invaded by a gazillion. It's almost the same story than, than the, the, you know, England and, uh, and you can see that you can see in the different tradition from the north and the south and, and all of that. So yeah, no, definitely you, you could write a sci fi about, about that.
What if like kind of like historical, um, fiction and, and, and see how different. Yeah. Alternative history as well.
Frank Saverio: I enjoy that too.
Marco Ciappelli: Yeah. It doesn't seem like you need ideas on what to write about because it seems like you're passionate about it. So what, what's, uh, as we get to the end, I have, uh, two questions. One, what's coming up next in your to do list?
Where is your passion bringing you?
Frank Saverio: Well, you know, I'm sticking with the crime fiction on the one hand on the one side because I have, uh, some open series [00:31:00] that I want to see to at least a resting point where the characters are in a place that's a good place for them to maybe be sitting for a bit. So fortunately, I'm in just about every series that that means one book to get them there.
So I'm yeah, Working on those. And then the, the, the, you know, the more, the one I'm more excited about just because it's new is, is a fantasy series that I've been working on, um, in the planning stages for at least a decade now, you know, making notes and thinking through the world building and the cultures and the, and story and plot and character as well.
But, but I feel like those. Those are things that can come more quickly, but the other, the other stuff takes a little bit more of a deliberate approach. So the series is called seasons of wither. And the first book is called a burnt summer. And I'm actually going to be kicking off a Kickstarter for it. Uh, sometime in the [00:32:00] next two, three months, um, just kind of waiting on the cover art to be finished and then I'll probably, uh, take another run at the, uh, at chapter one.
Uh, uh, chapter one is, uh, I wrote a short story for an anthology that was also, it would serve as chapter one of the first book and the theme of the anthology was a little lighter than the theme of the book. So I've, I've had to adapt it a little bit, so I'll probably take one more pass through that.
opening chapter and make it available as part of the Kickstarter and see if it's something people are interested in.
Marco Ciappelli: Well, I'm impressed by all the different angles that you're taking and challenges because my last question, well, you know, I lied. I'm gonna ask you another question. Because you just said that. So you're going crime to crime fiction to sci fi to fantasy and in my head you approach them. In a different way.
[00:33:00] You mentioned world building, obviously, you don't have a real one when you, when you create probably fantasy more than sci fi, but you're, you're building a war in sci fi too. So, I mean, sci fi and fantasy to me, they're pretty, pretty close.
Frank Saverio: I think with sci fi
Marco Ciappelli: They bleed into each other.
Frank Saverio: mean, sci fi you might have a jumping off point that's, that's pretty close to
Marco Ciappelli: More. Yeah.
Frank Saverio: whereas fantasy you're probably
Marco Ciappelli: Yeah. Yeah, you're right.
Frank Saverio: from scratch.
Marco Ciappelli: Yeah, that's, that's, uh, that's true. Do you change, how do you feel you change in the way that you write? Like if I take this books, right, three books of yours and I read it, is it still you? Can I tell it's you?
Frank Saverio: Yeah, I think so. Um, I, I do. I do. I, I think you, you, you definitely feel a different tone. You definitely notice. Uh, some language use that's different. I mean, there's
Marco Ciappelli: [00:34:00] Mm hmm.
Frank Saverio: of, of, of writing science fiction, I think, than, and fantasy, uh, and, and humor, you know, than crime fiction. Um, but I, I mean, I think you, you know, there's a reason why, you know, we, we mentioned music earlier.
I mean, you can. You can, you could take, you could take Mark Knopfler and ask him to play classical and you could probably still tell it was
Marco Ciappelli: It's still him.
Frank Saverio: Yeah. And so it's almost like we, we, we all have a, uh, uh, an artistic fingerprint that, that, that's there. And so even when we, we do things differently in the tone and the, and the presentation and everything is all very different.
There's, I mean, because you have to put yourself into the art. So how, how can
Marco Ciappelli: And it should be. I mean, if you're going to try to be completely someone else, um,
Frank Saverio: You lose authenticity if you
Marco Ciappelli: yeah, exactly. And you can, I love the example of Mark Knopfler, but you can use it for a painter as well. You know, you can [00:35:00] ask, you can ask a famous painter to write something that is out of what he normally paints, but the brush stroke, it's probably going to be.
Pretty recognizable. So what kind of music you play on guitar? What is your struggles? And do you have the time? I mean, how do you have the time to do this?
Frank Saverio: Well, I, you know, I play in small moments, you know, I don't, I don't practice a lot. Like it's probably why I'm not very good at all. Uh, I don't have great rhythm and I have a terrible singing voice. Um, I like to say, You know, to be perfectly honest with people, I always say, you know, I, I, I love it when I love playing and singing, nobody else loves it when I play and sing, uh, but, but that's okay because I, I get joy from it and I've reached a point where I can, you know, I can, I can strum, I can strum a lot of chords and, you know, I can find a song that I know and that I love that I want to [00:36:00] play and if it's not too complex and I have the, It's really good.
The chord chart up, you know, uh, so I can see where the chord changes are. And I can, if I, if I can figure out the rhythm, you know, of this drumming rhythm, um, or substitute one that works, you know, I can, I can, I can entertain myself and, and, and, uh, one thing that is, that I've learned is that if I'm feeling.
You know, down or dark, you know, even playing dark music or any music really lightens that up. It's a, it really purges those negative feelings. If you're having them, music is joyful. I, I so admire the people who are good at it. I, uh, I I'm envious. To be perfectly honest, I'd say it's an artistic talent that I wish I had just because I enjoy doing it so much, not because I would want to make money at it or show off, or I just, I wish I was better at it so that, you know, my wife would enjoy rather than endure when I play for him. and she's [00:37:00] great about it. She'll even sing with me a little bit, but,
Marco Ciappelli: Nice.
Frank Saverio: but Hey, you know, I mean, but I mean, you have to be honest about your own ability and it's, uh, that's why I say I'm a tortured guitarist. I love it. I'm not very good at it. I. My, I've definitely plateaued at, uh, at lower intermediate probably, but I'm not looking to, you know, play any coffee houses anytime soon.
Marco Ciappelli: But you know, when, when people ask, um, to someone, like, are you, are you a musician? Well, do I make money playing music? Then no, I'm not a musician. Do I play a little bit? Am I a stage material? Probably not, but I play. So you're still a musician, you know, let's define that. And there may be a lot of people that write in their, in the closet, meaning they're never going to show off their writing.
Frank Saverio: Yeah, absolutely. There
Marco Ciappelli: writers? Hell yeah, they're writers. Uh, absolutely. And it's a [00:38:00] meditation. It's a, it's a self, uh, relaxation. I mean, if I'm feeling down and I find the right music, that's, that's, that's my pill. I
Frank Saverio: Yeah. Yeah. You, you, you, you may be, you may not be an author perhaps, but if you write, you're a writer and that's, and so I don't know what the equivalent of is of for being a musician, but,
Marco Ciappelli: I think so.
Frank Saverio: you know, I just, I mean, I think songwriting is some of the most challenging writing there is. And, and I, and I think it's emerged over the past half century is, um, As the dominant form of poetry in our society and, and, and while I do, you know, while you do have to admit that it, it does gain a lot of its, you know, narrative power from having, from being surrounded by music that, that lends the emotional energy to it. You know, you can pull some, pull some good lyrics and put them on a page and just read them and, and tell me that's not poetry. I mean, [00:39:00] uh, there's a lot of songs that I, I think would be considered that. Um, and then there's the other piece to it. And that is that there are writers out there that are such good storytellers.
They can essentially write a novel in a song of 49 words, you know? Um,
Marco Ciappelli: opera, progressive rock. Absolutely. You, you, you tell incredible story with the, with that.
Frank Saverio: Yeah. Yeah.
Marco Ciappelli: that's why, yeah, yeah, no. And, and that's, is it like favorite band you want to mention or?
Frank Saverio: I've always been a Springsteen fan since I was about 10. So I, yeah. Yeah. So, you know, you look at a, uh, you know, song like the wall or highway patrolman or, uh, the line. I mean, you know, any of these songs that probably nobody's heard of, but there's, I mean, they're probably 40, 50 words long and you know, there's, uh, an entire novels worth of storytelling there.
And so I [00:40:00] think you can learn a lot less is more approach as a writer from, from looking at what people are able to do with song. And like I said, they had the additional advantage of, you know, what the musical accompaniment adds to it, you know? Um, but even just taking the words themselves, I think you can, you can learn.
And I've written a little bit of poetry. Um, not very good at it, um, but, uh, good enough to know that I'm not very good or experienced enough to know that I'm not very good, but also, To know that songwriting, I think is another step harder personally. I think so. Um, but, but it's, it's nice to be able to, you know, admire other speak, other people's art.
And when you create art yourself. I mean, this sounds pretentious saying that what I write is art, but, um, at the same time when you create art, then I think you almost admire other people's art, uh, almost more in a way because you know how hard it is. I mean, I, hockey's [00:41:00] my favorite sport and, um, you know, I know how hard it is to ice skate, much less play hockey.
I mean, I've played recreationally and it's hard. It's hard to stay up. It's hard. It's hard. All this stuff. And you watch these professionals do it. At the level that they do it. And it's just absolutely amazing. And part of the reason that I think I appreciate it so much is I know how hard it is from personal experience.
Some folks up in the stands maybe haven't strapped on skates or put on the pads and tried it. And so they think it's great and they think it's talented and it's enjoyable and all of that. But I don't know that they have the same kind of, maybe it's a different type of appreciation
Marco Ciappelli: they also, they also like to give advice.
Frank Saverio: Oh yeah, oh yeah,
Marco Ciappelli: like,
Frank Saverio: Shoot!
Marco Ciappelli: it? What is it
Frank Saverio: the puck! Shoot!
Marco Ciappelli: I mean, you need to try. You don't, you don't need to try extensively. But if you, even if you take a brush and you try painting something and you realize maybe you're not good at it, but you, you understand what it, what it [00:42:00] takes, uh, take a photo.
Like now it's easier, but. If I look at like Ansel Adams photography in black and white of, you know, a sunrise or a sunset on the mountain, it just tells you an incredible story. So for me, everything is storytelling. I'm reconnected to, to the beginning here because I really enjoy this conversation with you and feel free to come back anytime you want.
Um, I'd love
Frank Saverio: would love it.
Marco Ciappelli: returning, returning guest if they of course have fun with me and um, we can talk about other things. You know, as we close this, I think it's clear that a lot of things, um, which has art, it's, uh, it's storytelling. I mean, we're made of stories and everything that we do as, as human in our relationship.
So, uh, doesn't matter where it comes and it doesn't matter if you're making money out of it. Honestly, just, just do it. Seriously. That's, that's the message. I think. Frank, thank you so much. Really
Frank Saverio: Thank [00:43:00] you. Thank you. Grazie,
Marco Ciappelli: yeah, prego. And for everybody else listening, um, if you enjoyed this story, there are many more that I shared, and many more that I will share, and that's an audio signal podcast where we talk about stories, storytelling, and storytellers.
And if you subscribe, you'll know when this gets published. Well, you already know this got published, so whatever. I should have avoided that. But you know on the other one. I'm gonna get published. How about that? I'm, not even gonna edit that. I'm glad I didn't cough the whole Episode and we went through this.
So again, thanks Frank. Thanks everybody. Stay safe out there. Bye. Bye