Listen to Marco Ciappelli and Sean Martin's podcast episode with Pier Tognazzini as they discuss the shift towards a more sustainable and authentic way of traveling, "the new old way," focused on experiences, traditions, and sustainability.
Guest: Pier Tognazzini, Founder & CEO - Cles Vertes & MooVert France
On LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/pier-tognazzini-b4971a5
On Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/moovertfrance/
_____________________________
Hosts:
Marco Ciappelli, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine [@ITSPmagazine] and Host of Redefining Society Podcast
On ITSPmagazine | https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/marco-ciappelli
Sean Martin, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine [@ITSPmagazine] and Host of Redefining CyberSecurity Podcast [@RedefiningCyber]
On ITSPmagazine | https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/sean-martin
_____________________________
This Episode’s Sponsors
Are you interested in sponsoring an ITSPmagazine Channel?
👉 https://www.itspmagazine.com/sponsor-the-itspmagazine-podcast-network
_____________________________
Episode Introduction
Listen to Marco Ciappelli and Sean Martin's podcast episode with Pier Tognazzini as they discuss the shift towards a more sustainable and authentic way of traveling, "the new old way," focused on experiences, traditions, and sustainability.
Tognazzini has been living in France for 22 years and believes in a new way of traveling, which he calls "the new old way." This new way of traveling is focused on experiences, traditions, and sustainability. Tognazzini believes that people are starting to shift towards this type of tourism, similar to the way they have started to change the way they eat.
Tognazzini believes that people want to know more about where their food comes from and how it's made, and the same is happening with tourism. People are seeking more authentic and local experiences. The podcast aims to explore this new way of traveling and how it is different from the traditional way of traveling.
So, dear listener, if you're looking for a new and exciting way to experience international travel, then this is the episode for you. Join us as we dive into the world of authentic, local and sustainable tourism with our guest, Pier Tognazzini.
This episode is packed with insights and tips that you won't want to miss. So, hit the play button, sit back and get ready to be inspired. And if you enjoy the episode, be sure to share it with your friends and family. Let's spread the word about this new way of travel and create a movement that values the culture, environment and traditions of the places we visit. We can't wait to hear what you think!
_____________________________
Resources
About Moovert: https://moovert.fr/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/DP-Moovert-ENG-v2-2.pdf
_____________________________
For more podcast stories from Audio Signals:
https://www.itspmagazine.com/audio-signals
Are you interested in sponsoring an ITSPmagazine Channel?
👉 https://www.itspmagazine.com/sponsor-the-itspmagazine-podcast-network
Please note that this transcript was created using AI technology and may contain inaccuracies or deviations from the original audio file. The transcript is provided for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a substitute for the original recording as errors may exist. At this time we provide it “as it is” and we hope it can be useful for our audience.
SPEAKERS
Marco Ciappelli, Sean Martin, and Pier Tognazzini
Sean Martin 00:01
Marco!
Marco Ciappelli 00:02
Sean!
Sean Martin 00:04
How many times have you traveled between Italy and France?
Marco Ciappelli 00:11
Ah, I didn't expect that question.
Sean Martin 00:15
A few little a lot, not a specific number
Marco Ciappelli 00:17
few few times, I would say before I moved to me, before I moved to the US, it was an easier thing to do. Just go, just go north, and eventually you're going to end up in France or either north and then take a little left if you're facing north. So yeah, but the last time I was in the vicinity, I was in Switzerland. That was last year. So you know, very different. But still, I got that feeling of the Alps and the lake and the greener and the scenery that you get, also, when you when you get to France, how about you?
Sean Martin 00:55
I've never been between France and Italy? I've been to both many times. But never between the two, funnily enough. So I was wondering… the reason I asked that is because I think perspectives right? How you arrive somewhere and where you're coming from, can change what you what you look for, and how you see it and, and how it impacts you perhaps. And I don't know, I think over time, and I forget who I was talking to this about the other day, but I think travel is challenges. I forget, I was maybe five or six. My grandparents went to Australia. And this is a while back. And that seemed exotic, right now going to Australia or New Zealand or, or Europe. That's what we do. I think so my point is, things have changed over time. What used to be exotic is now common. And perhaps what we look for is different now than what it wasn't back, back, Olden, olden days,
Marco Ciappelli 02:07
you know, society and culture of change, globalization, technology has helped to do that. But I think that what we're going to talk about today, with somebody that, you know, kind of did what I did, I had an understanding about the same amount of time that I grew up in Italy, like myself, although in a different region. And then I moved to the US and he moved to France, but we carry with us, you know, our culture, maybe our way to see things and in this session is not as exotic as it used to be, but, but I think it's important that to retain the connection, the connection with the culture, the connection with the environment, the connection with the tradition. I'm a big fan, I talk technology all the time, but I love things in a traditional way. So what we're going to talk about today with Pierre Tania Seanie. And I know I said the name correctly, at least this time, I don't chop somebody's name because it's English. We're going to talk about the fact that there is, I don't know, a comeback, he would tell a better definition of of how he interprets this new, old way to travel maybe into experience of vacation, and everything that comes with that. So without further ado, Pierre, welcome to the show. I know it's been a while that we were supposed to talk right before CES in Las Vegas, but you know, by Kesha New Years and the holidays, but we finally made it so welcome to the show. Tell us a little bit about yourself and what we're going to talk about today. Yeah, so
Pier Tognazzini 03:45
firstly, thing is you shown the market invite me here is really a pleasure for me to show a little bit of a no, the new way of traveling that you say but it's good to say the past new and old way of traveling. That's quite cool, because it's truly like that. Yeah, my name is Pierre Pierre, senior senior spelling really well. Coming actually from Italy is almost 22 years that I am right now in France. And yeah, I create movers movement is actually a new way of traveling, you know, the new way that is almost like you said the way that we had before you know, looking for experiences looking for tradition looking for sustainability. I strongly believe that you know, people move in this direction for tourism tomorrow, you know, we have time to discussing about that. But I do believe that, you know, a lot of people the listeners and see has they feel it that they will like you know, to change the way for travel, like mostly we change the way how we eat, you know, know that everybody that's listening to us probably would like to know where the apple that has the table come from, how it's made, who made for All, you know that happened is probably 2530 years ago, this this kind of changing. And I do believe that in tourism is changing. And right now, you know, you have to be on board right now and propose a new way of traveling for people that have different expectation. What do you think?
Sean Martin 05:21
I completely agree. And soon as we start talking about food, you feed my interest, of course. And it's funny, I mean, I can I try if I'm, if I'm out and about, I tried to soak in my surroundings first, on my way to fill my belly next. And then and then as part of doing that you run into people, and then you get to experience people and cultures. And I think, Yeah, cuz I think, do I look for green adventures? I have in the past, not recently with with some of the slowdown in travel. But yeah, I guess, tell us a little bit about what, what you've seen change over time? How are things looking different?
Pier Tognazzini 06:15
Yeah, it seems like, you know, after COVID situation, people think that was like, on fashion movement, you know, that something happened, you know, and then go away, and so on. But we definitely saw that there's something structured that happened to resume, you know, the way that you know, even figures, I don't want to just give you 1000 of numbers, but just to let you know, that 20,000 of people was was asking what kind of tourism you want to do tomorrow, you know, in this research, and it's turned out that three on on five will lie to leave a holiday and ready to spend more money to live a holiday that has to be sustainable. Now, that's really interesting point, you know, the 29,000 people that say that all around the world, that's really another another point that is interesting. In other things that is curious that 42% of these people don't know how to do and how to manage this either. Because it's easy for me and you to reserve a hotel that is a big chain, it's a it's really easy, but find a local producer. And speaking about food because you'd like food, just give an example, you know, we do have here, producer of Honey, let's give an example, that eats are far on demand thing. Really, they have an authentic culture of honey, they produce honey, they have this accommodation with the production, you know, you can go there, you can stay with them, you can just put the dress for go with the bees and entreat the bees pick up the honey, and you have a cooking lesson based on the honey with cookies, and you make cookies and you go back to the states with the cookies made by the honey that you bring, you know, so just this kind of experience to give memories, you know that that's something that people looking for you and I can give you 1000 of different examples, but what we saw, I do believe that there are three big things that is important. Firstly, people are really want to be connected with natural, all different kinds of of practice, you know, with with the natural in the forest to see Monday, whatever. Second, they will like to live locally experienced, you know, the something that is traditionally and thirdly, they will like to be connected with people. You know, that's that's actually what what the holiday will be tomorrow. Of course, if you're primo visitor, like for instance, in France, you will like to go to Paris, you will like to go to Normandy, the things that everybody would like to do for the really first time. But as you said before, it's funny because people are already traveling a lot right now. And they probably they are repeaters. So they're looking for new kinds of XPS. And we go back to as you said Marco before, to the oldest way to discover countries, you know, what do you think about that?
Marco Ciappelli 09:10
Yeah, let's talk about that. I have two things that I want to kind of focus on because it's based one on my recent experience and kind of like one of my passion it is traveling there is no you know, it's not for a random reason that I that I said yeah, let's have this conversation. We I mean, Shawn to we love to travel, we'd love to experience and what I what you said is what I really love. Yeah, the first time you go to Paris or you go to New York shirt, go to see the Statue of Liberty, come to Florida and see the drama. Maybe take your time to do that or go to Torino and see the mall. But when you go back Don't you want to experience what the people that live there the culture I think about Paris I want to sit down and have a coffee I'm on March maybe and eat where the people from Paris eat. I don't want to go to the touristy place, I don't want to get to get this slice of pizza in the Bad Place in Florence, either I want to go to the Trattoria right? And when you do that you can go to visit the countryside, you can really learn. And I think you'll come back with a much richer experience. But there is one one question about it. Because if we go back to say, you know, the Agriturismo in Italy, it's something that it's been going on for for many, many years. And there is that thing about how do you keep authentic? Place that start to welcome the tourists, then that's a change, not voluntarily? Maybe Maybe they don't want to but does it somehow there is an adaptation there is like a way that is not as pure experience as we try to sell. It might be a little bit of a polemic here.
Pier Tognazzini 11:08
Yeah, that's really interesting question, Mark. Because it's true that what is authentic? What is tradition? You know, that this is a tricky question. So that's the same thing that we asked here. When we create movies that we've asked the same question. So we decided to join together. forces. And we we just made a partnership with the brand. It's not actually branded is a label is a government label name, clever out green keys, that they have a formal question, Eric, you know, they give you all the details about the sustainability, and all the engagement that you made for go in that direction. That is the first things in the other side, the authentic, we made a partnership with an association, this is named Bienvenue, LFM. Welcome to the farm. This is actually linkerd with the Ministry of the agriculture in France, you know, and they give only this level, to the people that respect the culture, respect the agricultural respect the, the way to local producer, and so on. So we do create, and that is the way that we can link our our, our connection with a CES, we put all these two companies with me. And we create an algorithm that's really interesting, this algorithm is 120 questions for the accommodation, restaurants and activities. And you get out if you are into the ecological transition, or you are fully into debt. And if you are an actor of develop, or your territory. So that's actually I want to say that is something that can help the consumer tomorrow's you know, I'm not alone. I don't want to say that. But I just helped consumers to understand, if they have three pine cones for pine cones, or five pine cones, that is actually the way that they are in this in this direction. So that's actually how we answer to the question that you answering Marco, but it's true, that is difficult. And we also said to ourself, that we probably can't welcome more than 1200 accommodation with all friends and islands. Because otherwise we can, we can stay in the promise that we mentioned, you know.
Sean Martin 13:44
And let's dig in a little bit more. So there's the authenticity piece, and I'm gonna go here with a stretch that assumes with authenticity, comes a higher price. Meaning if you can, if you can only book 10 reservations for the restaurant instead of 100. In order to maintain that, that small level and to maintain that experience, perhaps the price has to go up and and we add accommodations and perhaps local sightseeing and other things surrounding the whole the whole event. Is there a basically a difference between haves and have nots? Only those that are super wealthy and have the means both in terms of finances and and time to reach these places, maybe because they're not next to the airport. And they they probably cost more as well. Any any thoughts on that?
Pier Tognazzini 14:44
Yeah, it's really interesting when you mentioned because if you and all the people that listen to us go on the website. In green keys. Clever x, there is a third point that is the same price You know, because we do believe that you can have this experience at the same price. But you will also to accept to give some congestion. Schanzer is the right word concession. Because you can't find an espresso machine on your accommodation, you can find the things that we are used to, you know, just traveling everywhere. And so, if you just do this kind of congestion and you give, say to yourself that maybe it's quite more brave holiday, let's say that, but on the other hand, you have on your hand, something that is really authentic. So, speaking of which, I think that yes, of course, there are accommodations that are really expensive, and so on. But there are also accommodation that are like, for instance, this, this accommodation here, up to the trees that you see behind me, you know, for $80 per night, you can stay there, you know, and it's alright, so it's so it's true when you're looking for more services, that's became expensive, my like, everywhere, but otherwise is accessible for for a lot of people.
Marco Ciappelli 16:10
Well, that's
Sean Martin 16:11
the treehouse. In fact, that was quite a quite an experience, very limited in terms of in terms of feature comforts. And,
Marco Ciappelli 16:21
you know, Sean, what it makes me think is like your usual question, and maybe we this we, we kind of transition in technology, because I want to understand your connection with with CES. And we're talking BS, we're talking, you know, slow cooking food, but we haven't said that, but I've been thinking about it, and real experience, and then we got to bring the technology in the conversation. But before we do that, and I think it's a good transition is, Shawn often say that now with a virtual access to everything we're going to pay more for, in the future, the virtual world becomes the real worlds. And there is there is less and less than that of the real experience. And we're probably pain and people do it to leave your phone somewhere so that for one entire day, you you experience, I don't know a word or like you said, a tree house tree or something like that. And there is this coming back to, to these with the food right there is coming back to organic biologic, and in a lot of other things, and, again, you want to go and experience I don't know Kyoto, and live in a in a two story 100 years old place. So you can see how they leave instead of going to the big hotel, downtown or near the airport, as Sean said, how it seems to be contract, Victorian a way like a contradiction with like, everything becomes more tech. But we want the tradition. And I love that. I absolutely love when you can find the mix, I think is a winner. Right? So how did you end up talking about this traditional way of to do tourism, reconnecting with nature, in the biggest technology show, so ever. So explain me how technology comes into play here.
Pier Tognazzini 18:31
It's my talent, you know, Marco…
Marco Ciappelli 18:34
Good one. I love it. Though.
Pier Tognazzini 18:36
Well, it's funny because I actually use all the technology to help connection, you know, because for one side, as I said, we do have tourists that need and want to access to a new way of tourism. The other side, there are providers that do a lot of works to jump into the ecological transition, and really proud to show their authenticity. You know, just as you said the cooking lesson, the champagne wine yards, the wine show your yards, the truffle because there is truffle, also France, and so on. So all these people has raised some some great knowledge on the hands, but they don't know how to sell it. Not in France, because in France, everybody do it. But I said to myself, Well, what I would like to do is to promote this know how that is, is a pure gold on the hands that they have outside France, and how I did it. I did like an ad an algorithm and plus, I create a platform that already speak 11 different languages. So the reader people that are seated in Tokyo and looking for traveling in France, they can read it, the tiny house behind me in Japanese and every Thinking studying Japanese. So this is another another technological way to that to help to promote this kind of tourism. And third way, it's interesting because I said to myself, it's not only me and you that would like to try it. But also there are two operators travel agency, there are private conservatory that they look desperate for this kind of health of the path way to make tourism and they don't know how to do it, you know, because once again, they don't have this big company, like all the hotel chains that they have a massive of salespeople to go around and give tools to reserve. So I said to myself, well, I give a way that they can just jump in. In our website, that is part of the website that I have on the b2c and they can just reserve for the customers. So that's ending the ministry of the economy of France choose eight startups for the travel tech at the CES. And we were just aides and one of the aides it's me, because they they said to this, PR use these technological to promote something that is extremely authentic or friends. That is what how handing in this Yes.
Sean Martin 21:19
I love it. And I'm wondering Pierre, so there's the data, the platform. And that's kind of one, one part of it. And then there's the the environment, and all the the restaurant tours and the hotel till the years and whatnot. And then the people in the middle, I'm wondering, how has the story line changed? I'm wondering how what we search for is, is that different? How what we what we expect to see when we land somewhere, does the language change as a visual change over as that change over time? So I'm wondering as a conversation, change to match what we're looking for?
Pier Tognazzini 22:05
Yeah. So your question is how, how things change in the way that we promote these kinds of offers. That's what you mentioned?
Sean Martin 22:15
Well, here's an example. Other way to put it. So if I'm talking to 20 years ago, talking to a travel agent, they have something to offer they presented to me, I say, that one looks good, or I want a relaxing space to be and they've gone and do do a search based on their own knowledge. Or maybe maybe there was some technology to help them narrow down the options. But there's so much now that I'm wondering, how is what we ask to experience different? And is the response we get back to what we think we want to experience different? And how does I know you talked about languages but maybe there are other things beyond just the language connections that help people find what they're looking for and perhaps even be presented with something they didn't know they wanted because they didn't know what to look for in the first place.
Pier Tognazzini 23:14
Ya know, understand, is true. Just go a little bit back before transit to the question. It's almost 20 years right now that I promoting France around the world, you know, it's my job. So if you'd asked me what I can do better is the one that I did since almost 20 years and I do that and all the time they see customers see journalist as the tour operators or travel agency, the first thing that they asked me I will like something different. The first things that are in this field all the time tourists say I want something different, and I want something special and I want something out of the path in the mouth add something that is sustainable, or something that take care of the natural. So that's that's this these these things grew up grew up grew up all the time and I said to myself, Okay, what is people looking for experience and looking for be connected with locals and what they can think that is important besides languages is as I said all the time that you have an accommodation, you have an experience that is linked with accommodation. That's probably another point you know that the things that you can touch with hands. What what do we mean do all around your holidays, this is another thing that is very interesting. And plus, sharing the experience with the locals because this is another things that people looking for. Not only do they experience because if you do a cooking lesson with a teacher, there is no point but if you do the cooking lesson with the producer of of champagne, you go to close the bottle of champagne for five days, and you will enjoy to cook some Sunday champagne of champagne, and you will. So that is something that even even if these champagne producers pick up really bad English, you will forgive that, you know, because that's what you're looking for, you know,
Marco Ciappelli 25:15
you're wanting to speak bad English, because it's more real.
Sean Martin 25:20
Well, it's funny I mean, speak picking the language, I know some some language companies offer x, right word is but travel scenarios where you can travel to a region where truffles are, are harvested one particular part of the year, and you can go and do cooking classes and learn language and harvest the truffles, I presume in an organic, eco friendly fashion? And so back to the language and that's that the centerpiece around that is language, giving you an experience of a local, local that's in Italy, that I'm thinking about it. I'm sure that's in France as well, right? Yeah.
Marco Ciappelli 26:02
Well think about the technology there. So you know, I love to travel, and I just came back from Japan, I don't speak Japanese, I can say maybe five things. And according to my wife, I don't even pronounce it correctly. But I try. But also, then I take my phone, and I can literally speak in my phone, and it's gonna be voicing perfect Japanese, and they can have the person that doesn't speak English, or Italian or Spanish or whatever, understand reply domain. So here's another piece of technology that can really help, right, like the translation piece that can keep the spontaneous conversation going, it's probably gonna get better and better. I mean, I'm thinking, chat, driven by artificial intelligence, and all this conversation is probably gonna get seamless and easy, easy to do. But I think it's gonna be hard to do is again, you still maintain the truth of it. And I think that's, that's the trick. I think that impure, I like pure, I like to hear a maybe some other example of how this model can be applied to completely different and exotic in some other way. Reality, you know, so that instead of the people going, I don't know, to the Maldives to just enjoy the beach and they'll tell their can they then go and experience something that is much more traditional, can they go in New Zealand, and instead of having, you know, the act out hookah dance, to actually get to go into the real, you know, the real environment, the real you know, what I mean? Like, how, again, I go back to, how do I not end up in this in a world where it's just fake?
Pier Tognazzini 27:57
Yeah, that this is a tricky and then it's, it's interesting, because even the government started definitely thinking about to go this way, I have couple of contacts, you know, in the in the islands franchise, plans, Caribbean French islands, and also the reunion love union, I don't know, reunion is said in English on this island, as a as a lot of seaside resorts and hotels, and I have a tea producer over there, that suggests you know, to spend a few days with him. And, you know, just help him to the to the tee and understand how you produce the and you go back to your country with the with in the pocket the tea that you produce, you know, so that's a kind of way to make these mechanism of mass tourism to move it slightly in your there's something that has to be an is another another thing that I think that is important that we said, we do not expect that changing like that, you know, because otherwise we'd be fake, like you mentioned before, you know, we have to smoothly go on that direction. And even for providers, what we done, we do also have people that say, Pierre, I have a tiny family hotel. I know that I would like to jump in ecological transition, but I don't know how because they don't know, you know, they are artisans of hospitality. So we just jump there and we help them to make this transition. You know, that is another thing that is extremely important because they don't want to put people on the side say, Okay, you are not green. So I don't want you know, that is not the point. The point is just to grow up together, and to try to do something definitely for our planet. Because we do have only one planet, I remind you, and so that's that's what we've done, you know, we do an audit of energetical water, all the things that can be changed easily, you know, and we help them to put these kinds of things and swap even a little bit into ecological transition, and maybe we have these, this hope that we can start to have more and more tourists, they want to make different change, you know, I not expected everybody go on the other side direction tomorrow. But, you know, right now we have to do something. And it's our responsibility, you know.
Sean Martin 30:22
So on that point, maybe I can combine two, I have a gazillion in my head questions in my head, but all combined to this idea, like touched on a little bit earlier. But how do we prevent something from being over? Sold, where there are just too many tourists, and they're not trying to fake it. But they can't keep authentic because there's just too many, too many people even even if, even if they're not staying at the hotel and enjoying that meal that they that they prepared using the honey that they that they harvested? There might that region might attract a lot of people because of that, and the region can change. Right. So how do we protect that? And I guess the other question I have with that is do we expect people to travel far to reach these places? Because that can also have an impact how they arrive to these places? If if the goal is to kind of reduce the impact on on the planet? How do we how do we do that on a grander scale? Is that something you're looking at?
Pier Tognazzini 31:36
Yeah, okay. There is actually to question your point. And I asked for the first point. So we have to be honest. And we have clearly to say that two reasons we did not stop tourism, you know, people enjoy tourism, people enjoy to travel, people want to move from something that they don't know, exotic things that they just looking for years and years. So. And also, I also realize that France is the first destination in the world, in numbers of tourists. And I said to myself, is true that there are a lot of companies, you know, shown that work in France, that they speak only with the French people, and not with the French because they say no, I would like to speak with only with my locals, because they come with a train with COVID bicycle, and they don't follow that, you know, what I said to myself, what this is, is truly treat the problem at 360. I mean, there are 1000s of people that arrive at the airport of Paris, Lyon, Bordeaux. Nice. And what we do, we do like that, I don't know I don't want because you come so far, so I don't want to look at you. So that is my point of view, I do think that people are ready made a lot of pollution with the airplane because they have a co2 bonus here on the shoulder. And they they they have to consume differently when they are on the lands, you know, because they already polluted a lot. So this is my point of view, thinking about the people that traveling with airplanes. And second point I do believe that and I really hope that things change also for the aviation and we have maybe tomorrow something that is more green even aviation you know, we speaking about we saw project in the CES, I don't know if you if you came over, but it's so there are a couple of do three projects that are really really concluding and I really hope that things change also for that and speaking about the last point that you mentioned about over tourism for this destination. So the destination that I mostly promote our rule on destination you know, countryside destination or mountain destination that the accommodation there are not a lot you know, so one time that they probably have 10 rooms maybe 15 When there are big, big big big occasion. So for them there will be not at that moment that will be now that we live there will be this problem you know it's too late tomorrow like you mentioned Shawn if they can became something more more used we do have to focus on that but thinking also that probably we help places like Paris like Venice like you know that they can't they struggle from tourism, like you saw what happened in Barcelona is they just meant ads on the wall say get out tourist from our town you know, so we do live this kind of thing. So I do believe that it features dissipated all these tourism everywhere in the country. Maybe I said maybe shoulda seen the future, but they will help cities like Florence like Venice like Barcelona. They are to struggle and maybe helping producer and give a distribution If they call me that would be more, you know, on all the territory, that is my hope.
Marco Ciappelli 35:05
And I'm gonna jump on there because as you know, as an Italian and coming from city like Florence, I feel the pain. I mean, I, I used to live, literally five minutes walking from Ponte Vecchio and you just can't find the time to even enjoy the CD as if you're in Dino anymore and Venice. That's not even go there. That's even, that's even more. So I see your point on how you're already receiving all that why not dissipating and mitigating by offering opportunity in other place, and I'm gonna give you an example, I want to know what you think about it. I was reading something on how Florence again, I'm going to create a second Fitzy location because you know, all the hours that is in the air. And that's a problem for many sitting in France, I'm sure in in Italy, in Spain, where art is more than what you can consume. And so they say, well, instead of doing it, downtown in Florence, where they would not, you know, it would just promote Florence even more, they could create it, I don't know, off an hour away in the countryside in a villa, let's say and, and that my question is yet, but are you going to create the infrastructure with a with an electric shot or trauma train that really connects the two in an environmentally friendly way, instead of driving, you know, buses, or having people to rent a car to go there, because that's very Italian to do something new, but don't think about the infrastructure to do it, you know, I'm taking the blame for that. So I do love how you're thinking in terms of how the technology could help to, you know, promote, in a very organic way, these flocks of tourism and and you need the government that is receptive to to that to invest the municipality or all of that. So, what is your feedback on working with with the, with the infrastructures when when something like this comes about? I mean, is that receptive? There are like Consortium? I mean, I know you've mentioned in the class Verdun and other that probably part of conserving the territory and that tradition. So is a very receptive, or is the kind of like, Yeah, we don't want the tourist.
Pier Tognazzini 37:42
No, no, I do think that they they understand the importance, the to go in that direction, thinking that also the Mr. Macron, our president, he has said that the France will like to became here 2025, the first sustainable destination in the world that is, you know, something that he said, and he made a plan. So, you know, but that is political. So we don't fit the politics. But in concretely, concretely, I do believe that all these organization of tourism that is named, you know, the Tourist Bureau, they have all right now create a section and create a team that is in charge of developing the Greenway to militarism, you know, all the big, big area and region, like we speaking about the South speaking about the West, the normally the Britannia and ille de France, whether it's Paris, so they don't everybody going this direction. So they really understand the name put on that, and they help us they help us. Glad to say that. And I think that the the winner, way to go in this direction will be a partnership between three people. Firstly, is the association, the local association, like we said, in Italy, we do have a lot of Proloquo and so on. So the local association, Lincoln with the heritage liquor with the with the territory. So second would be the private company like me, that give new ideas give new technology, the new wave to made, you know, the thought of things is marketing and communication because often they lose this federal power. And thirdly, is the state and the government help. So if these three working together, I do believe that we can go really far everywhere, you know, and also that's funny because you asked me about the CES. I do have contacts during the CES with the California government, you know, and even other governments that are really deeply interesting, you know, to meet something maybe also in these two states, because as you know, we had troubles with with the sustainability when we were in Las Vegas like crazy, you know, weather, but it's definitely it's something that's If governments are really interested in and third last point is the infrastructure and the transports, it's funny because during the CES a given other another heat, I had a great meeting with the Japanese company, then g r s, arrived with a file like that on me translate already Japanese, you know, I say, we already do the right things, we will like to develop something like that in Japan. And you know, there are discussion on. And that's interesting, you know, because once again, we are the biggest fear of technology. And I have people that are really big company or consider that I'm a startup forget that there was a Nokia, we will light something that that is like that, you know, so be back to traditional be back to the workers.
Marco Ciappelli 40:52
And I love that you went there. And maybe we can start wrapping this conversation which of course we could go in, I tried to go in art, and you know, Shawn tried to go on food, but we're talking about tourism in terms of visiting place and learning and he's all connected together. I mean, again, I feel like that, that when you talk about bringing someone with tourist, a visitor, even somebody may want to spend an entire month there. I don't know, not just that, you know, taking a bite a day in the city in and off, that's probably not your target, you're probably talking about somebody that really wants to immerse themselves into into the culture, like get their hands dirty with, with doing things right
Pier Tognazzini 41:37
land with the land. Yeah, exactly.
Marco Ciappelli 41:39
Which is amazing. I mean, and again, I you know, some people may say like, why would I want to do that? When I'm in vacation? Well, that's not your target. That's okay. There's always going to be those people, right. But there's also going to be the one that really wants to immerse themselves into into this. And I think that collaboration is important. And you mentioned California, you mentioned Japan, how easy you think it's going to be to replicate this. I mean, I think every country will be receptive. If you go and present a package that they can say, okay, it worked there, we can make it work here, it's gonna take time, again, Infrastruktur, hotels and chains and everything and contact the locals. But, you know, it will be a utopian way to, to look at the future. And I will walk on that. So I think how, how easy you think it's going to be to do something like that? Am I been through the allistic? Year?
Pier Tognazzini 42:45
No, no, that's really interesting question. That's actually why we wake up every day in the morning, you know, so that's because I truly believe that there is an option to make tourism different tomorrow, you know, there is and we have to pick it up. We have to work strongly, you know, to just give this pedagogic way, like Sean asked you before, you know, the fact that it's a pedagogic way to live a kind of different way to make reason, you know, that's probably the things and it's true, maybe one day, you know, there is actually this option booking Expedia, Airbnb, and maybe mover. That is really definitely something really, but when it's true, that it can be duplicate easily everywhere, you know, everywhere. And I do believe that all these artisans of treason because I said artisans, because they are providers that they don't know, how communicate in United States, like where you are providers that don't know how to make a camp, social media campaign, you know, so then we just all together, we can do things really strongly, and go forward, you know, so that's, that's really interesting. So they do believe that mostly, it's like, you know, the couch where we come from what they done with food, you know, that we just joined together local producer with food. And now this food is proposed this big chain that everybody know, the one I mentioned, but it's proposed everywhere in the world, you know, and they saved 1000s of 1000s of cultures that otherwise will die and you know, so that's, that's really interesting, but the star 25 years ago, you know,
Marco Ciappelli 44:33
yeah, and they come together the consortium idea that that brings them Yeah.
Sean Martin 44:40
So I know one one more for me market before we wrap up. So you asked the big picture, I had the same question in my mind as well, is that the platform and the model replicable, such that we can we can have this spread across multiple regions around the world. I want to get your perspective here more more locally and inwardly focused. What what happens next for these individual local programs, because I know we talked about making sessions, you don't have your your espresso machine in the room, right? For example, maybe there's no Wi Fi. Or there are other things that really bring you into that. That thing, that experience something, don't even bring your own clothes from the states and bring you arrive and with a toothbrush, and everything else is for you. Because Mark, and I've had conversations here on audio signals, specifically around food and sustainably growing food where rather than shipping everything in from all over the place to prepare a meal. It's all grown locally, and you avoid, avoid a lot of eco stuff there as well. So what I'm not going to try to answer the question, what locally is the future? For this model? What changes do we we expect to see in the next few years?
Pier Tognazzini 46:05
Yeah. What I do think this is a really hard question, I do think that we do have to thinking about changing way and the mechanism of travelers, just even when you travel for work, you know, they do believe that you have to just is a mindset that as to swap in a different way, you know, expectation. And as soon as you understand that you will not find in the country that you travel, something that is same when you have home, you already done something, you know, I explained better than myself, just people today, what they look in is the same comfort, the same coffee the same, I don't know what they have in their house, because they have discomfort, they will like to find somewhere else that is actually the topic of all the looks at and they work for luxury hotel for almost five years, you know, so what we gave all like to give to you, Shawn, if you count Paris, just give you exactly the same comfort and go forward. So if this set mind, maybe change, and just the thinking that you win, concede to not have the same comfort to the same thing, but your open mind, to see that there are something different that just come to you. I think that we born diabetics, what do you think? I love it.
Marco Ciappelli 47:34
I want to finish with this? Well, it's a hard question. No, it's a philosophical answer. It's beautiful. I mean, I agree and I, I am the first one that tells you know, people, you you are in this place, try to adapt, don't go to again in Japan and expect to find the good slice of pizza. You could you can you know, there are Italians everywhere French everywhere. But why would you do that? Well, we could go all the way there to to not enjoy the their food, their drink the way that they you know, their tradition. I mean, try to adapt and I think I don't know whose default here is the probably the people that provide that they want to say yeah, you can find your usual coffee shop your usual fast food, your usual blah, blah, blah. or Now you come here, you need to. So who is the fault? I don't know. I don't know. I think people love to travel because they want to enjoy something different. That's why I think this is going to be probably hopefully the way of the future. But again, not for everyone. There is still going to be the people that want
Sean Martin 49:07
There are cruises for a reason.
Marco Ciappelli 49:09
Exactly. There is like I've been to New York, how long off day. Wow, you really got to experience exactly. Yeah, under the Statue of Liberty or something like that. Well listen, I think
Sean Martin 49:28
how many total months worth of time I've been in France and Paris even. And I've not been to the top of the Eiffel Tower yet.
Marco Ciappelli 49:39
I beat you on that one. And I haven't spent much time in Paris. So I was traveling with a backpack and I was 21 years old. So I need to go back and do it in a different way. Right. Anyway, Pierre, I think this is not just it was a conversation or just about the way you travel but the way you think I think it'd be became very kind of philosophical in a way, a way to look inside ourselves and the way we, we should perceive our next adventure, maybe next, travel and one doesn't exclude the other, I think you can do that with the family and you can do another trip, you know, for work. I mean, that's going to be, that will be another completely different question when you have to travel for one day of conference somewhere. And let's not talk about the pollution that we create when we do that. Anyway. Shawn, this
Sean Martin 50:35
is Marco, this is audio signals, the signals are different each time and the way people receive them, I can only imagine is endless as well, in terms of how they how their signals, make them think and perhaps act. And yet, it's our goal with these is to get people to think differently, or think about what they're doing, how they're doing it. Maybe explore life in a different different way. And hear your stories. certainly helped. Hope that for me today. So I want to thank you for that.
Pier Tognazzini 51:10
Yeah, thank you. Thank you. And I just just interesting, like you said that just maybe stop for a second and thinking about about the discussions, you know, just will be will be just first the first step into this transaction. Let's
Marco Ciappelli 51:23
start thinking about and that's that's all we want. We got no answer about a lot of questions. Thank you again, thanks, everybody, for listening. And there'll be notes to maybe some resources you want to share with our audience here and of course, to connect with you on social media and learn more about what you do and what you did maybe at CES and what's coming up. Thank you again, everybody, to the old the next time.
Pier Tognazzini 51:51
Thank you.
Sean Martin 51:52
Keep traveling.